Have you read Bill Whittle’s latest, much-linked piece yet?
I haven’t.
I sort of stopped right here:
Now please pay attention to this, because I’m not going to state it again, and if you don’t hear it now much mischief will follow:
I believe that the human animal – the raw material of our physical bodies – is essentially interchangeable. By this I mean that I could take the children of Fallujah and turn them all into Astronauts, convert Jewish babies into fanatical, mass-murdering SS guards, and shake a generation of the poorest Voodoo-worshippers in Haiti into a cadre of top-flight nuclear physicists, chemical engineers and computer scientists.
What’s wrong with this picture?
Can you see the problem with these examples?
He takes the children of Iraqis from the heart of the “insurgency,” and turns them into Astronauts.
He takes the poorest of the poor from Haiti and turns them into physicists, engineers, and scientists.
He takes Jews and turns them into Nazis.
Which of these things is not like the other?
Bill, I have a suggestion for you: Edit, edit, edit. Because your point is not being made.
Am I being too sensitive? Perhaps. But when the anti-Israel left is filled with remarks about “zionazis,” and when Ariel Sharon is likened to Hitler, I think that pointing out a truly offensive example comparing Jews and Nazis is not out of order.
It seems to me that if Bill is trying to make a point, he should perhaps turn the Nazi into a Jew. Or choose someone else to pick on.
My tribe gets bashed enough from our enemies. We don’t need it from our friends.
No, Meryl, you’re not being too sensitive. What is it with this guy? He’s always taken more words to say nothing than anyone else in the blogosphere and still gets the royal arse-linking treatment. And he’s had this fascination for the Jew/Nazi thing from all the way back to his very first post, as you and Judith, among others, pointed out years ago.
Oh, now who’s angry?
Listen, though–I missed that “Jews into Nazis” bit when I read it myself, but I hated the post anyway. Why? Because the man cannot resist overworking metaphor and analogy and, as someone guilty of the same vice myself, I don’t see the need to go encouraging it in others. Because “pink and grey” was just a little too too (must traditionally-feminine colors ALWAYS carry the negative connotation?). Because, as Lynn says, he takes too many words to say nothing.
Basically, with a few exceptions, most of his posts read like “Rah rah me for being such a stouthearted, clever Amurrican male. Who’s with me, boys?” I get the feeling if Whittle woke up in an alternate universe composed of naught but himself and 6 million John Wayne clones, he’d be pleased as punch.
There, I feel better. Thanks!
I think Bill Whittle was echoing the saying (attributed to St. Augustine, I think): Give me a child until he is seven years old, and after that you can do what you like with him.
But yes, there is a big problem with the direction of his examples. Every one of them goes from negative to positive except for the one concerning Jews and Nazis. There are other, much better ways to illustrate the point that a young child can be educated to become the mortal enemy, or even the antithesis, of his birth tribe — assuming that this is the point Bill Whittle was trying to make.
Yes but notice that all the others arechanging evil to good. Only with the Jews does he attempt to say changing good to evil. Not only that, but only with Jews is there some “logical” connection with the opposite. All the others have no connection. Indeed, all the others can be both. Only with us is there a contradiction.
Meryl, Bill’s point was that anyone can become the worst of people. Race, religion, politics matters not. Can you honestly say that you have never heard of a Jew who was a despicable bastard? Keep in mind that such people are not despicable bastards because they are Jews, they are despicable bastards because they are despicable bastards. Their faith, their ethnicity has nothing to do with the matter.
Every group has people one would much rather were not part of the group. Unfortunately what we’d prefer isn’t always possible. The best you can do is acknowledge the existence of such, and repudiate their behavior. It’s better to clean the crap off your silverware than to bitch at the guy who pointed out the crap in the first place.
Meryl, Bill’s point was that anyone can become the worst of people
Actually, in the sentence to which Meryl objects, his point was that anyone can become the best of people.
Except Jews. They can become Nazis. You know, it happens every day.
Can you honestly say that you have never heard of a Jew who was a despicable bastard?
Quit playing with the scarecrow.
The rest of your post just continues bashing away on Mr. Straw. Nice. I’m going to conclude that means you couldn’t effectively argue the issue actually under discussion–which is that Whittle has a habit of envisioning Jews as Nazis, generally; and specifically, that in attempting to use parallel structure, his only item that does not fit the parallel depicts Jews becoming Nazis.
Whether that’s telling or not might be up for discussion–check with Meryl. But whether or not Meryl knows any Jews who are “despicable bastards” is irrelevant.
Ilya, Bill’s point was that the worst of people could become the best of people, and that the best of people could become the worst of people. And he’s right.
When I say that someone is an ass, I say that because he’s an ass. Ethnicity, birthplace, faith, are irrelevant. When I say that Jews are capable of becoming thoroughly despicable people I say that because Jews, just like anybody else, are capable of becoming thoroughly despicable people. No one is immune.
The difference between people is not that some can be rotten and others cannot, but between those who deny the possibility and so take no steps against it, and those who acknowledge it and so take steps to prevent it. The good are good because they know what they are capable of, and are determined that they will not fall into the trap.
You are human, you are capable of error. Being a Jew makes no difference, confers no special immunity. Neither does it make you especially prone to vile tendencies. Ultimately how you behave is your responsibility, you cannot blame another for what you do.
Actually, genetics are extremely relevant, and anyone who’s been keeping up on current studies in genetics—particularly twin studies—would be able to refute Whittle using scientific evidence.
It’s all very feel-good and all that to say that people are essentially completely interchangeable, but it’s also untrue. Nurture plays a role, but nature is what shapes us.
Ilyka got my point mostly right. I’m not saying Whittle does this Jew/Nazi thing a lot. I’m saying other people do, and he should know better. If he needed to make a negative example in the midst of positive ones, he should have chosen something else. Like “I can turn an American baby into a terrorist.” That would have worked, without the added baggage of turning a Jew into a representation of the worst Jew-killers the world has ever seen.
Funny, isn’t it, that people are so eager to say that Jews are no different from anyone else, and yet, the world insists on always pointing out our differences, and then slaughtering us for them.
Mythusmage, perhaps you don’t understand the concept of “straw man.” No one here has claimed that Jews are “immune” from being despicable people. That’s a fake argument you set up because you couldn’t refute the one actually being made (see Meryl’s post, above).
People are people and they can be good or bad, regardless of their race, religion or ethnicity. Gee. That’s profound? No one disagrees. It’s not worth a 10,000 word essay or even a 10 word essay because it’s, you know, common knowledge.
So please don’t try to pretend anyone on this thread is claiming moral superiority or any other special status for Jews or anyone else. That argument’s not going to work for you.
Love your work Mythusmage (not).
Glad you think that “despicable Jews” allows Bill to work his metaphors unhindered. So what metaphor would you apply to saintly Jews?
Oh wait – using Bill’s example they would also have to metamorphose into Nazis. Looks like we’re tossing with a double-headed coin. (Tails we lose, heads you win.)