Let’s take a look at what’s going on in Israel, site of the 2006 World Pride Parade.
The Sephardic Chief Rabbi is asking the Pope to help him block the parade in Jerusalem. (Wow, religion makes strange bedfellows, eh?)
The Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi wants the parade canceled, too.
Shas party minister Meshulam Nahari is objecting to a new program by the Education Minister to combat homophobia in Israel’s education system.
Three Christian organizations condemned the parade.
And the Muslim response?
Last week a Muslim leader, Knesset Member Ibrahim Sarsur (United Arab List-Ta’al), warned gays that “if they dare to approach the Temple Mount during the World Pride 2006 parade in Jerusalem they will do so over our dead bodies.”
There are degrees of intolerance. I think I’ll take the Jewish or Christian intolerance of gays over the Muslim intolerance.
And I will bet you that when this hits the mainstream media, any violence at the parade by religious Jews will be played up, while any violence by Muslims and Christians will be downplayed or ignored—as will the fact that Israel is the only nation in the Middle East where a Gay Pride parade could be held.
Update: Great minds think alike, and Lynn’s got a post on this as well.
The violence will NOT be by Christians. Itt would be by gays or by Muslims. In Philadelphia, in a peaceful demonstration by Christians at a gay pride event, homosexuals attacked the Christians. When the police showed up they arrested, not the violent homosexual attackers, but the peaceful Christians.
Let’s be real! This has nothing to do with the “treatment” of gays in Israel. This has to do with a parade funded by outsiders, that is clearly unwanted by the majority but being forced upon them. As Rabbi Yehuda Levin told listeners in the Knesset, based on photographs of pride parades all over the world, they include barely dressed and undressed demonstrators many involved in suggestive behavior. Police are on the record in many communities with obscenity laws around the world that they have been told to ignore parade behavior so gays get to flaunt obscenity laws and public sex laws during these parades so that the community won’t be perceived as intolerant.
Mennyiben, I actually agree with you about not holding the parade in Jerusalem. I think it’s a stupid idea, partly because of the police protection that will be required, and partly because those ungrateful bastards in organizations like Queers for Palestine will be protesting Israel while enjoying the protections of the very state they are protesting.
And again, I must point out, that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where this parade can occur. No other Middle Eastern nation would allow it.
This parade, with all of its warts, speaks volumes for the greatness of Israel. That is the point I was trying to make in my post, but may not have made clearly enough.
Teshuvah, Michael Marcavage is not exactly a peaceful Christian! I am a proud Jewish lesbian feminist Zionist blogger and, even though I dislike such parades, would love to be at this one! It will be quite modest, BTW.
“The violence will NOT be by Christians. Itt would be by gays or by Muslims. In Philadelphia, in a peaceful demonstration by Christians at a gay pride event, homosexuals attacked the Christians. When the police showed up they arrested, not the violent homosexual attackers, but the peaceful Christians.”
I misunderstood, Meryl. I agree with you. I get so tired of all the propaganda in the media about Jews and Christians being intolerant just because they don’t wanna act like dhimmies to the minorities in their midst (and in the meantime Israel treating Palestinians so fairly). Palestinians aren’t even allowed to vote in most or all Arab countries. In Dubai according to a French program I watched on tv5.org last week (Envoye Special), Muslim workers from Pakistan work 13 hours often in temperatures over 110, for 150 euros monthly and get to sleep on the floor 17 to a room (and have their passports confiscated and aren’t allowed to talk to people). They basically enslave their own people whenever convenient.
Teshuvah: I can’t let your last comment stand.
“No flames” means no attacking other users, no matter what you think of them. I get that you detest homosexuality. But I don’t, and I’m not about to get into this kind of a fight on my blog.
Comment is deleted.
Meryl:
Mishlei 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the righteous, even they both are an abomination to HaShem.
Shemot 32:26. then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said: ‘Whoso is on HaShem’S side, let him come unto me.’ And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
Yesh’yahu 5:20. Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that change darkness into light, and light into darkness; that change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!
I suppose then you will delete this one, but you cannot delete the Truth, even if you deny it.
Consensus with evil is abomination. Today it is a propaganda tool of the globalists who are practicing Transformational Marxism and want to delete all who are true in Israel. You have been deceived by the propagandists.
Bye,
Teshuvah
Well, then I guess I’m an abomination.
What-EVER.
Teshuvah,
You have been deceived by the knee-jerk hatred in your heart for those who are unlike you.
Let it go. And quit trying to hide your personal prejudices behind biblical verses that have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand.
“You have been deceived by the knee-jerk hatred in your heart for those who are unlike you.”
I disagree with you in this case, Lynn.
Teshuvah believes that homosexuality is incompatible with the principles of his religion. He also sees injustices towards Christians, on behalf of this ‘abomination’ in Philadelphia.
I would call it outrage towards those two issues being that it contradicts his view of law and order.
Knee-jerk hatred strikes me as something a little more volatile. It also strikes me as a PC label to silence someone who disagrees with homosexual behavior / Lewd parades (eeek! I’m being oppressed! :) ).
And so what if it is hatred? He has not physically attacked anyone, burned any crosses on anyones lawn, or even … peacefully protested at one of their over-the-top parades. He has had a post deleted by Meryl, but I do think that he has a right to be against something. Really against something.
Me? I personally disagree with homosexual behavior as it resembles far too closely other abberrrant behaviors that are condemned by the majority of religions & society. The only reason why it is gaining acceptance is that (like marijuana) it is practiced by a critcal density of the population.
Do I Hate homosexual behavior? Yes I do. Am I going to do something about it? Well… the most I can do is speak harshly about it and vote against legalizing it.
Should I be condemned for hating homosexuality? Absolutely not. I have a right to that emotion just like anybody else – and I am not going change how I _think_ just so that a couple of grownups can legally abuse their bodies in an unnatural way.
Why should I be oppressed for what _I_ believe?
I never gave homosexuality or homosexuals much thought except knew those who were through friendships and relations UNTIL it started getting so political in the name of victimology. Now homosexual lobbies demand adoption preference (yes preferences when any family judge who believes differently can be fired and has been fired for citing evidence to the contrary of the homosexual agenda) and when parents who want their children (including kindergarteners!) excused from lessons on homosexuality are arrested. Just who is the hater here? Contrary to what the programmers say, it’s not the peaceful Bible believer, but the one who demands that everyone’s gray matter be the same as their own or face their consequences!
Firstly, cond0010, thank you. My feelings exactly.
Meryl, et al. —
There are two streams, those who are blessed of G-d and those who are cursed of G-d. For a long time I was in the cursed stream. It became so bad that I sought diligently to examine myself and the RuleBook to see how to get under the blessings of God toward Abraham so that things would go well with me.
That required me to agree with G-d and hunt down sin in my life and stop doing those things that were displeasing to G-d. Suddenly I moved from the flow of cursings to the flow of blessings. Further He directed my life in paths I would not only not have chosen but did not think were possible. They were all paths to better things. So I’m blessed.
For this the world hates me, even most Christians and Jews who are irreligious or ungodly. So who is hateful? Who loves G-d and who loves the things of the world?
The Bible makes it clear that there has always been a huge divide between the godly and the ungodly, the righteous and the wicked, the holy and the profane. G-d does not require that everyone think alike, that is Babylon and confusion, but rather that they choose to covenant with Him and keep His commandments, love what He loves and hate what He hates.
If you don’t understand this, then keep in mind that G-d gives understanding to those who obey Him (blessing stream) and hides things from those who don’t (cursing stream).
“Naaseh V’Nishmaâ€
“We will do first, and afterwards, understand†(Shemot 24:7)
http://www.ou.org/chagim/shavuot/naaseh.htm
Shema?
>>>”I must be an abomination then.”
When is a Jew not a Jew? A Kiddush prayer says Jews are sanctified by the commandments, covenant people, and are to be a light unto the nations. If you not keeping the commandments but are directly opposing them and the Author of them, then you aren’t keeping your part of the covenant, aren’t sanctified and are not a light but in the dark. In such case, are you even a Jew? Don’t just react. Think about it.
[Everyone with a “Zionist Unity Tolerance mentality” give me a break. You know I’m speaking the truth.]
Teshuvah: You are laboring under the misconception that I give a shit what you think.
That said, attack me or one of my readers once more, and you can spout your bigotry somewhere else. No flames means NO FLAMES.
Say, here’s an interesting tidbit. 5:30 p.m. EST Friday, the date of Teshuvah’s latest curse, works out to 7:30 p.m. Saturday, Australia time.
Teshuvah is posting through an Australian IP.
But wait. It’s not Australia! Teshuvah is posting from New Zealand! Which means that post went up at 9:30 Saturday morning.
(Say this in a singsong): Someone wasn’t keeping the Sabbath….
Pwnd.
Ever heard of the International Dateline? AU and NZ are a day ahead of you.
Check this and fill in locations at the top.
http://www.thetimenow.com/index.cgi
Okay. Let’s see, 12 hours from Friday night is 5:30 Saturday morning, plus another four hours for NZ time makes it 9:30 a.m. Saturday.
Yep, still works out to violating Shabbat.
That’s a time converter link, too.
It is 2:28 a.m. Sunday. Forget the time. You don’t have it right. If a Yeshiva student or even a Rabbi told you the same thing I did, would you call them a bigot? Its Torah pure and simple. What would would Moshe say? What would Abraham say?
You know, “Teshuvah,” the more you write, the more your lies are exposed.
Your first response in this thread is insisting that the violence at the Gay Pride parade will not be by Christians. No comment on what I wrote about the Jewish response to gays. Interesting, that.
Then you quote parts of the Torah that have nothing to do with the situation (cf. Lynn’s comment), then you are caught posting on Shabbat, in spite of your protestations to the contrary. Now, you ask me “What would Moshe say? What would Abraham say?”
You know, a religious Jew would quote the commentaries and Torah.
On the other hand, a Christian pretending to be a Jew might ask, “What would Moshe say?” especially in light of having been brought up with that line of thought by “What would Jesus do?”
You have been exposed.
Fraud.
Quit tap dancing around the truth. You posted on Shabbat, which a religious Jew NEVER does. You tried to cover it up. Whoops, that would be lying. And you are misquoting the Torah.
Smells like a Faux Jew to me.
Jews for Jesus, much?
Jews for Jesus in New Zealand?!?!?!! Now that’s pretty silly. I wonder if you don’t like the message and have to attack the messenger.
Actually it is you that is angry and it it your hair on fire like FLAMING, not mine. I told you I was not accepted by *either* Jews or Christians except I have a few Orthodox friends. The Bible requires obedience to G-d, not man, and the wicked don’t like to hear that. The Jews want to be accepted by being Jewish by birth. The apostate Christians want to be excused by Grace after Yeshua said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” Both wrong.
Forget JFJ. That’s red herring. Not on point and I don’t support what they are doing by trying to make Jews into apostate Christians.
Check out these short links (not me):
http://www.lightofmashiach.org/notjewsforjesus.html
http://www.lightofmashiach.org/messjud.html
So that would be a yes, then?
Shyeah.
mennyiben: “Teshuvah” is not a Jew, by his own admission. Those links are not to Jewish sites.
He may not be a member of JforJ, but he ain’t a Jew, either. And he’s been playing one on my blog.
Naughty, naughty.
Or, as the kids say: Pwnd.
No, the Faux Jew and the Faux Christian is anyone who doesn’t keep the commandments. Simple. They are unbelievers, the ungodly, the wicked. Don’t pass go.
>>>Then you quote parts of the Torah that have nothing to do with the situation (cf. Lynn’s comment),
Go back and look at what I said. It has everything to do with the situation. You just didn’t understand it. Watch.
Mishlei 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the righteous, even they both are an abomination to HaShem.
You justified the wicked and even confessed to being an abomination so you got that one right and it is on topic.
Shemot 32:26. then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said: ‘Whoso is on HaShem’S side, let him come unto me.’ And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
G-d wants people to make a choice and you chose to do wickedly and hence have no understanding. Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but they that are wise shall understand. The reason the wise understand is because they agree with G-d instead of the world and the wicked.
Yesh’yahu 5:20. Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that change darkness into light, and light into darkness; that change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!
You flamed me and said I was evil and gays are good.
Next Question?
Bored now.
Go away.
Are only Jews allowed to post here? I can empathize with Teshuvah. My family is part anusim and “suddenly Jewish” (like the book by Barbara Kessel) but I, like Teshuvah, don’t consider myself Jewish or Christian, feel more comfortable around Jews, and studying Torah (not with Messianics) and if you want to check out my location, I’ll save you the trouble, it’s Miami. Lots of Jews for Jesus here (I’m not one of them).
Addendum: at the same time, I’d lean a lot more towards Christians like Michael Mcavage protesting the events in Philadelphia and I watched the video online where he got arrested last year. He wasn’t the one being violent, nor was the 68 year old woman and the 17 year old girl who got arrested.
If you want to understand, you have to DO what HaShem commands.
Mishlei 7:13 The fear of HaShem is to hate evil; pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Tehilim 9 He hath sent redemption unto His people; He hath commanded His covenant for ever; Holy and awful is His name.
10 The fear of HaShem is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all they that do thereafter; His praise endureth for ever.
I never claimed to be a Jew. You have continually flamed me, called me a liar and tried to put words in my mouth, while your own are schoolyard epithets.
Do consider what I said in its entirety. I know He won’t let you forget.
Have a good Shabbos, Meryl.
Sunday
July 9, 2006
4:59:08am
Tel Aviv 2005, the parade wasn’t so “mild” and it wasn’t so “clean”, and “The High Court of Justice had to force the dominantly Orthodox Jewish city to provide services, including police protection.”
And then the arrest of an Orthodox Jew, TRUE Jews are protesting the wickedness of the wicked! Just like Philadelpha, city of Brotherly Love, they are arresting the true! See the man being arrested at the link below.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/velvetart/28759189/in/set-648191/
Mennyiben, the name is Marcavage, and he gets arrested a lot because he wants to. We have plenty of other groups, Christian and otherwise, protesting gay events in Philadelphia, but most of them make their point and go home. Marcavage does what “Teshuvah” is trying to do here — stir up trouble and offend people so he can claim that he’s being persecuted when they react predictably to being taunted and abused.
Cond0, sure Teshuvah is entitled to his (?) opinion and so are you. You can hate anyone you want to. But preaching on someone else’s website is something else entirely, especially when you’re lobbing judgmental bullshit at the author.
It’s funny. The Torah prohibits all sorts of behavior, from eating lobster to mixing wool and linen to use of deceptive weights and measures, and yet few people seem motivated to assault or attack folks who defend or even commit such heinous acts. Or to post religious rants against them on other people’s blogs. Ask yourself why.
LynnB, those are my sentiments exactly. Ask some of the protesters against the parade whether they also think that people who don’t observe Shabbat deserve to be stoned to death (as the Torah stipulates) and see how they answer.
Regrettably, Israel has a severe problem with human trafficking, which carries a death penalty in the Torah (Exodus 21:36 and Deuteronomy 24:7). Why don’t the same people who cry “abomination” about the parade, which is a one-off event after all, protest human trafficking, which is an ongoing problem here and is at least as serious a violation as homosexual behavior, according to the Torah?
LynnB:
I doubt there are any “plenty of Christian groups” protesting gay events. I’d like to know which groups protest gay events anymore or ever did. Groups no, maybe a handful here and there. Next to none stood behind the ones getting arrested in Philadelphia and arrested elsewhere around the US. Most Christian groups don’t protest, unless it’s about long lines at the Carman concert.
Abuse and taunt, wow, those are loaded words. You could say he taunted when he calls it preaching (hey if you don’t like that street preacher on the corner, can’t you just walk on by?) and he could say he was taunted by a gay group protesting the protester in front of his own house prior to Outfest 2005.
http://www.repentamerica.com/gallery/OutFest2005/OutFest2005_OutsideMichael_sHouse
He could say he was threatened since they went to his house and spoke with a loudspeaker, but even if they went to intimidate him, it used to be legal to protest on sidewalks. Except at Outfest, where these two ladies were among the 11 Christians arrested:
http://www.repentamerica.com/gallery/OutFest-2004-Arrests/Ladies_Arrested
And abuse?, judging from all the documentation he presents, he wasn’t allowed into Outfest and surrounded by the Pink Angels, when he asked the police to tell them to let him in, he was arrested. Did I mention a 17 year old girl was also arrested for holding a poster? This is one agenda people aren’t allowed to disagree with or protest. Witness this Jewish protester at the Pride parade 2002 in Jerusalem:
http://www.nir-vana.com/photosite/Events/Jpride02/images/05.jpg
Dangerous to “huwt peopwes feewings” when they whine and crybaby worse than pallies and you can get arrested for it.
When the Lobster Council, the Textile Industry or Enron get to introduce their curricula in school and teach children if their parents don’t eat unclean foods, wear blended wool, and use deceptive weights, they are bigots, then we can talk.
Yeah, you did lie, Teshuvah. You lied from the second you chose the Hebrew word “Teshuvah” as your comments handle. You lied by omission, pretending to be an Orthodox Jew, using the words “HaShem” and “Gd” for God.
You gave quotes from the Torah, not the Bible. Christians don’t quote the Torah. They quote their Bible.
You got all judgmental on gays’ asses, and kept talking about having to keep “HaShem’s” commandments. When I deleted that bigoted post, and told you fairly politely why, you then got all judgmental on my ass. Smart move, asshole. (Whoops, I just called you a name for real, this time. I hope I didn’t cause you palpitations.)
When I pointed out that you were violating the Sabbath–which, by the way, is one of THE big commandments, and you’re breaking it, bubelah–you denied it at first. Denial–there’s another word for denying the truth of something. It’s called “lying.”
Every one of your posts calling for judgment were lies. You are not Jewish, yet you used a Jewish name, Hebrew phrases, and everything else you could think of to make people think you were a religious Jew.
Which, clearly, you are not. No religious Jew posts on Shabbat. No religious Jew turns on a computer on Shabbat. And no religious Jew asks “What would Moshe say?” when called on a religious question.
And finally—last, but not least—you had the nerve to call my Jewishness into question because, gee, I don’t fit into your screwed up version of religion.
I have never pretended to be an Orthodox Jew. And my Gd is just and merciful. I’m not worried about what’s going to happen to me when I die. If you had any concept of the meaning of the name you chose for my comments thread—Teshuvah, repentance—which in Judaism is followed by forgiveness—you wouldn’t be the hateful, nasty, vicious little lying shit you are.
Now that, my dear, is flaming.
Believe me when I tell you that you do not want to answer this post. You’re done here.
Be smart. Go away.
Repentance means stop sinning, live righteously, seems like Teshuvah has it clearer. I think you’re wrong about him posting on the Sabbath but if he did, maybe he was trying to get an ox out of a ditch. (You don’t have to kick me out, I’m gone.)
mennyiben — Now that Meryl has cleaned ‘Teshuvah’s clock — with all due respect, you clearly don’t have the faintest clue what you’re talking about. Doubt all you like, but I suspect that your view from Miami of what’s been going on in Philadelphia for the last several years is slightly less accurate than my view from, well, Philadelphia. In other words, you’re just plain wrong. But feel free to come on up some time and check it out for yourself. You’re clearly reading only one side of the story. Those of us who live here don’t have that luxury. Believe me, there is another side, hence the reaction of the Philly cops. (And if you actually think that the Philly cops, including some still of the Rizzo era, are partial to gays and lesbians, then you really are out to lunch.)
Meanwhile, three of the marchers at the gay pride parade in Jerusalem last year were stabbed (as in, with a sharp knife) by a religious zealot. Compare and contrast. And please read Rahel’s comment above.
Finally, hmmmm… “Lobster Council,” textile industry, Enron … yeah, we’re clearly down the rabbit hole here. Sorry, but I live in the real world. Bye!
Oooog… go to Duluth for a couple days and look what happens… :)
Er… LynnB – play nice. Note the below quote:
(*But preaching on someone else’s website is something else entirely, especially when you’re lobbing judgmental bullshit at the author.*)
Neither was I ever advocating violence towards Homosexuals nor was I preaching. I was defending Teshuvah on a couple points where you were a little over the top.
Note another of your quotes:
(*The Torah prohibits all sorts of behavior, from eating lobster to mixing wool and linen to use of deceptive weights and measures,and yet few people seem motivated to assault or attack folks who defend or even commit such heinous acts.*)
Eating lobster? Mixing wool and linen? Violence for that? Come on, Lynn, your slapping me in the face.
(*Or to post religious rants against them on other people’s blogs.*)
I said I despise homosexuality and its behaviors. That is not necessarily religious. Again, read my post.
(*Ask yourself why*)
Lynn – I wrote my post very calmly and rationally. Your response towards my post is badly distorted and innacurate.
Perhaps you should ask yourself why.
-and btw – I have liked very many other of your posts in the past. I’d hate to have a continual dialogue such as this one cloud any future discussions that we have.
Peace?