I think I’ll be putting up Heroes discussion posts for the rest of the season. I had a good email discussion going with a couple of people. And people had some interesting comments last week about Mama Petrelli (super power of prescient dreaming, which would explain Peter’s dreams in the first episodes).
The online graphic novel fills in a lot of knowlege gaps, but it also (for once) managed to give a bit of a spoiler. If you’ve been reading it, you found out before last week’s show that Linderman had power, and what that power was. (Healing! And here I thought Linderman was the big guy behind the Superhero Kidnapping Factory.)
One of the things I love about the show is how they make you think, “Ooh, bad guy! I hate him!” and then turn around and make the character shades of grey. Except Sylar. Him, we still get to hate. Please let it stay that way.
In any case, “String Theory” is the name of tonight’s episode, and the theory itself posits that there are an infinite number of alternate universes. SF writers have used that particular aspect of string theory to their advantage. (I love the idea myself, because I’d like to see what would have happened to me in the alternate universe where my parents stayed together, or the one where I went to college in Seattle instead of NJ, or even the one where I said, “Buy stock in Yahoo? Sure, why not, I’ll take a hundred shares” instead of “Are you nuts? Who’d ever want to invest in a Yahoo?”)
I think that Future Hiro hasn’t changed his present because he can’t. Our Hiro couldn’t save Charlie, even though he tried. I think that they can only affect a different timeline. It’s too late for Future Hiro, but it’s not too late for him to help our boy prevent Sylar from nuking New York. Or Ted. We’re not yet clear on who does the deed in our universe.
We can talk about the episode later tonight, at least, those of us on the east coast can. If you don’t want to read any spoilers for this episode, I suggest you not read the comments here. However, please don’t post spoilers for future episodes in the comments. I really like being surprised.
OK, now I’m getting confused. Future Hiro says it was Sylar who nuked New York. Peter thinks it will be him. And now Meryl thinks that instead of either copy artist, it’ll be Ted — the original Boomer — who’ll do it.
Hell with it. If we’re gonna be speculating who’ll be the one who blows up, I’m gonna put my money on Jessica. She’ll split the atoms with her fists.
J.
No, I didn’t say it would definitely be Ted. I forgot, that’s my old theory. But he does have the power, unless Sylar eats his brain first and steals it from him.
Some people think that Sylar kills Ted, eats his brain, then can’t control the power, so Peter steps in. But that doesn’t make any sense, because Peter copies others’ powers, but he doesn’t take them away.
In the last episode, though, Nathan and Linderman said that Peter’s the guy in the picture. And Isaac said now he knows how he’s going to save the world and that Sylar will die.
And, of course, there’s the whole “If they nuke New York in season one, they’re screwed in season two” theory.
The thing I like best about this show is how they keep surprising me. In fact, I look forward to being awestruck, and disappointed if I’m not.
Heroes is so good, I don’t even mind when they blatantly rip off comic book plots. This week we get “Days of Future Past.”
The creators never read comic books, Eric. Dystopias are a common theme in SF, though.
Wow.
Tonight’s episode was amazing.
I was right about Ando. And why Future Hiro got so serious.
But the Sylar thing took me by surprise tonight. Next week, apparently, we meet his mother. Briefly.
Wow.
Just—wow.
Well. My buttocks are well and truly kicked. The attack on Claire took me completely by surprise. And I wish we could have seen more of the Sylar/Nathan throwdown. But all in all, a very satisfying interlude to show everyone just what’s at stake.
You mean the Sylar/Peter throwdown? Even-steven, what with Peter being able to absorb any powers around him, and this Peter is a lot more pissed, and a lot more effective, than the one from five years ago.
I realized Nathan was Sylar about the time he started getting all weird about being “special.” This one was a jaw-dropper, though.
I love this show. Best damned thing on the air since Angel. Well, and Firefly, but I never got into Firefly while it was on TV.
Tim Kring never read comic books. Jeph Loeb is also an executive producer and is credited as co-creator. (Though he is not credited as writer for this episode.)
Dystopias are common in SF, but stories where genetically unique, super-powered protagonists are sent into a future where they find that those with unique genomes which give them superpowers must register or be rounded up by psychic agents? There are just two or three too many points of similarity for me to think it’s coincidence. Again, though. I don’t fault the show for it. Somehow it actually makes me love the show more.
Yeah, it was kinda nice seeing the X-Men without seeing the X-Men. Hell, we even have a Kitty Pryde now, don’t we? Well, we did until Sylar got her, anyway.
Hey, comics steal stories from one another all the time. To quote one of my favorite sci-fi writers, if people really wanted something new, baseball would have died out long agao. The question is – how well do you tell that age-old story, and how good are your characters? Heroes does a VERY good job of both.
Eric J. is right – the show’s creator hasn’t read comics (he decides what stories he wants to tell, and then chooses character powers based on those – wild!), but many of the show’s writers are comics devotees. Have any of them read “Watchmen” or “Days of Future Past”? Of course they have. Which is why, as Meryl said, we get to see the X-Men without the X-Men. I no longer really like the current comics version of the X-Men, but I love “Heroes.” REALLY wish we’d been able to see more of the Peter/Sylar fight, though.
I haven’t had a chance to see the episode yet so this is from logic of previous episodes.
1. “Alternate” Hiro did not kill Syler because he had leeched Claire and regenerated whe he was “killed”. That means he probably did not decapitate him.
I prefer “Alterntae” Hiro as Claire had been saved in “our” timeline (unless Syler gets Claire before she leaves for Paris.
In this alternate frame, NY goes up because
2a. Ted detonates as Syler tries to get him (allowing Syler to survive)
or
2b. Syler survives ground zero just like Claire survived Ted.
3. Syler had continued leeching others including “Chameleon” so he could have taken Nathan’s place (the painting he was making at the end of the previous week”.
4. “Alternate” Hiro knows Peter who has an obvious scar but did survive so he was not the “exploding man”. In that case, he either never met Claire or got damage too badly to fully regenerate.
This is interesting.
or even the one where I said, “Buy stock in Yahoo? Sure, why not, I’ll take a hundred shares†instead of “Are you nuts? Who’d ever want to invest in a Yahoo?â€)
Did you see the movie “Frequency?”
OK, so there’s one thing I don’t understand:
1) The future is a post-apocalyptic dystopia, because the bomb went off in New York.
2) Future Hiro blames himself for the bomb going off, because he couldn’t kill Sylar.
3) Hiro couldn’t kill Sylar because Sylar had already killed Claire and taken her regenerative power. (Hence, “Save the Cheerleader, Save the World.”)
So… HOW IS CLAIRE STILL ALIVE IN THE DYSTOPIAN FUTURE?
Apparently the dystopian future is not a separate timeline that Future Hiro was unable to change, but rather, it is still the same timeline and Future Hiro going back to give Peter the message didn’t stop the bomb (although now Claire is alive). Future Hiro thought saving Claire was enough to stop the bomb, but that just put into motion another set of events that made Peter the bomb. Also, given that Future Hiro does not realize that things are different, he appears to be unaffected by changes in the timeline.
An interesting problem though: does the dystopian future still exist? When does the timeline change to wipe out that future? If this won’t happen until they successfully stop the bomb, then wouldn’t it be possible for future Sylar to steal dead Future Hiro’s powers (assuming he defeats Future Peter) and then travel back in time to stop them from stopping the bomb? My head hurts from writing that.
OK I’ve seen the episode and there are some questions,
1. I can see that Peter losing control can detonate and survive because of Claire.
2. Claire might revive after Syler kills her even though he thinks she is dead, but the brain regeneration would be difficult.
3. Syler must have killed Ted and stolen his power in order to be able to fight Peter.
4. Did Syler get to Linderman? I would guess so as once he killed Candace an became Nathan, Linderman would not have suspected him.
5. Why didn’t Parkman realize that Nathan is really Syler, or does he deliberately not try to read his mind?
6. Peter needs to meet Ted before Syler kills him in order to detonate (and would survive like Claire survived Ted).
6. How did Peter get the scar? If he can regenerate using Claire’s power then the scar should have gone away. Perhaps it is the guilt.
7. Who killed Jessica? Was it Syler?
Jon.
Since Hiro is dead, Syler cannot get his powers (he did not get Eden’s powers once she killed herself). Bennet did not realize that the “dangerous” ones he turned over to Bennet were leeched by Syler (D. L. for example – power of reaching through solid objects).
Ted probably can survive his own radiation. Since the explosion would blow everything away from him, either Ted or Syler can detonate and survive. Peter may only think that it is his fault.
Actually there are three alternates.
1. Original, Syler leeches Claire, bomb goes off, Hiro thinks it is Syler because he regenerated when he was stabbed. Peter thinks it was him because he absorbed Ted’s power, Syler leeched Ted either before or after the explosion. Ted may have actually survived the explosion because close to him the damage was pure radiation, allowing him to be killed later by Syler. Remember, we left Ted and Parkman on their way to New York.
Thanks Meryl for reminding me that Linderman and Micah would have been in New York trying to fix the tracker at the time of the explosion. The question still arises how Syler got to Candace unless Nathan inherited Linderman’s organization and once Syler got to Nathan he was able to start leeching the powers subordinate to him.
2. First change, Hiro has Peter save Claire, not sufficient. This is the alternate of the “String Theory” episode. the result of this alternate is to have Hiro told about Syler and that he must kill him. Since Hiro has jumped ahead five years, he was not present in New York to try to stop the bomb.
3. Current alternate, Hiro and Ando are now back in New York before the explosion. Now they can try to stop the explosion by stopping (they think) Syler. Even if he succeeds, he still has to realize that he has to arrange for Peter to save Claire or this alternate will collapse (unless “alternate” Hiro’s actions remain in the timeline even though he “never existed”).
Since this is TV, it will probably take the next three episodes (based on the commercial at the end) to fully resolve the issue. Perhaps next week he stops Syler, the following week he realizes that was not enough, and the third week he stops Peter and Ted from detonating.
BTW Meryl, It appears that Claire and Peter could not revive until the thing that killed them was removed. Claire revived the first time when the stick of wood was removed from her side (puncturing her heart – this is from memory so it could have been the head). Peter revived when the glass was removed from his head. Sylar did not leech Pter (either because he did not think to or because he couldn’t). In either case, this implies that he has to leech while his victim is still alive. Perhaps this is why he has to kill them the way he does rather than killing them quickly and then getting the power.
So it is possible that Claire might revive after her power is leeched unless Sylar totally destroys the body. Since I doubt that we will see that “future” again, I do not think that we will ever find out.
Perhaps we will see the Peter Sylar fight in “our” present now after Sylar leeches Ted. Maybe that is what blows up New York in “our” timeline. Even if Sylar does not have Claire’s power, that would not affect the actual fight.
I made a mistake above. Sylar had to get to Candace (the Chameleon) before he got to Nathan or he would not have been able to take his place. Maybe he got to Candace, used her appearance to get to Nathan, and then took over the organization.
“Jon.
Since Hiro is dead, Syler cannot get his powers (he did not get Eden’s powers once she killed herself).”
But Eden shot her brains out specifically so Sylar couldn’t steal her power. Whether he could steal dead Future Hiro’s power because his brain was still intact (though not working) is unclear, although, since Sylar’s power is analogous to understanding the workings of a watch (except it’s actually the brain), he would probably not be able to steal someone’s power once the “watch” stopped working.
“Since Hiro has jumped ahead five years, he was not present in New York to try to stop the bomb.”
But if this were the case, why is future Hiro still present in the future? If Hiro jumped five years and wasn’t there to stop the bomb, then future Hiro wouldn’t be there since past Hiro would have removed himself completely from the timeline during the past 5 years.
“Claire revived the first time when the stick of wood was removed from her side (puncturing her heart – this is from memory so it could have been the head).”
It was the head. The coroner removes the stick from her head during the autopsy and she immediately comes back to life. The brain is the key: it is the source of everyone’s powers.
Regarding Future Hiro’s inability to change the timeline enough, it only altered it slightly so that now Peter is the bomb. Hiro going into the future and then coming back with Isaac’s last comic book is the key I believe, as it covers what happens five years in the future (and presumably what happens after they go back). I’m guessing that in the present, they don’t actually get the comic before the bomb goes off and that’s why Hiro’s jump into the future was the last needed piece to stop the bomb.
Sylar didn’t eat Peter’s brain because Mohinder stopped him.
I’m assuming he eats the brains. We never do see anything but an empty head after he’s done cutting them open. Or absorbs them somehow, which would explain how he gets their powers.
Things we know:
1. Nathan is going to pick up Peter, who is about to explode, and fly off with him. I’m of the opinion that he’s going to dump Peter high up in the air where he won’t destroy New York, then fly like hell to save himself.
2. All the heroes are gathered in NYC at this fateful moment. This includes the ones we’ve only just found out about–as Peter’s dream repeats itself, we see more angles of the dream, and more heroes. The Invisible Man wasn’t originally in the dream. Now he is.
3. There’s a new Hero in town, and she’s a little girl. What are her powers? We don’t know.
4. Sylar goes home to Mama. There is going to be blood. Does Mom have powers, too? Is Sylar going to kill his own mother and absorb her powers? (And if so, ew on so many levels.)
Things we don’t know:
1. Who the hell is running the Hero Factory? Hiro’s dad? Linderman? Someone else? The government?
2. What side is Linderman on? Just when you think you have another bad guy to jeer, he seems to have a soul.
3. And what about Naomi?
Okay, that was for Electric Company fans. Time to get back to work.
And Soccer Dad, no, I never saw that film.
The future Hiro lived through those five years, but it appears that it was changed so Peter did save Claire and absorbed her power so future Peter should not have a scar. Apparently (from what Hiro said in the subway car) he had it for a long time, maybe since the bomb went off. Based on the way he regenerated after falling on the car, maybe he could not fully regenerate because he was too busy. The graphic novel shows him with the scar when he breaks Nicki out and Hiro without the beard.
Once Hiro and Ando save New York, then Linderman is alive and he continues with his plotting. Enough for a complete season
Even if Hiro fails to save New York, but kills Sylar, Nathan is not killed and stays president. Again room for a whole season of plots while Hiro works to fine tune his changes and set up to save New York at the end of season 2. COnditions should be better than “when” Sylar was president.
I don’t think Peter’s dream was literal. I think what we saw was what was happening in his head, as he cycled through his available powers to figure out which one he should use to save the city. His instinct is to go for Claire, and ensure his own survival, but he ends up choosing Nathan, so that he can save the whole city.
My take on Linderman is that he’s like Magneto. He’s not evil, he’s just sick of the whole “let’s save humanity” obsession of the good guys and is more interested in the welfare of his own people.
In the first episode where we met Matt, wasn’t he and Blond FBI Woman discovering a crime scene where a mom and dad had their brains missing and there was a little girl hiding; Syler later tried to get her…
Is this the girl from the coming attractions?
And what powers did her parents have that Syler got?
I was thinking the same thing about the girl from the beginning of the season – that would give it a nice “we’ve full come circle” kind of thing.
I don’t think her mom had any powers because she was not killed in the usual Sylar power-stealing mode (although it was still pretty gruesome), but her dad did. (Unless Sylar thought he had a power and took his brain when it was really only Molly. Then again, we’ve seen that the powers are passed down from parents to their kids.)
Sylar currently has the following powers, to the best of my recollection: freezing ability (source unknown), telekinesis (that guy from “6 Months Ago”), being able to paint the future (Isaac), super memory (Charlie), molecular manipulation (the guy from NC), super hearing (mechanic in Montana), the ability to steal other people’s powers by doing something with their brain (his inherent power), and finally, and I’m just guessing, some sort of extreme survival power that he got from a cockroach when he was locked up in the paper factory.
He also seems to be able to adapt to a new persona pretty quickly (pretending to be an employee at the paper factory and pretending to be the metal melting guy), though that might not be a real power.
Jon, that ability Sylar has to charm people? It’s a sociopath’s power.
Very true. He seems to be quite good at it. From the commercials for next week’s episode on NBC right now, looks like he’s trying that out again (he’s got his hair combed flat and is wearing a sweater).
Additional Syler power: The ability to make the writers give him the best lines:
“This is the part where people usually begin screaming.”
It’s always a bad-guy power…