Religious Jews protesting the gay pride parade in Jerusalem set fires all around the city. Nice. Good time of year to set fires. When the rains have stopped and the dry season begins.
While Jerusalem police prepared to protect the pride parade in the center of town Thursday afternoon, anti-parade protestors seeming decided to relocate their demonstrations. Less than an hour before the parade began, a number of protestors are suspected of having set fire to various spots in forests around the city.
Ten fire crews from the Beit Shemesh station, as well as six firefighting helicopters, are working to put out a conflagration that developed in the Eshtaol forest, west of Jerusalem, and another fire near Beit Shemesh.
Beit Shemesh fire chief Eli Peretz said that the fire in Eshtaol could have been caused by deliberate arson or by accident. The fire in Beit Shemesh was determined to have been caused by arson, apparently in protest of the gay pride parade in Jerusalem.
Several small fires in Jerusalem also appeared to be the result of arson by anti-parade protestors. City resident Gil Shiloh said that he noticed four fires near the Valley of the Cross, in central Jerusalem, and heard people praying in the background.
Way to make us look like the Islamic nutcases. Way to be tolerant and holy.
I don’t usually criticize the religious Jews. We have different opinions about things. But two things I refuse to tolerate are bigotry and cruelty, and this is both. It’s as bad as the so-called religious Jews beating up women who dare to want to sit wherever they please on a bus. Or rioting when they don’t like the way the police investigate a case. Or when a gay pride parade is being held.
And do not get me started about gender separation. That’s why I will never, ever be Orthodox.
But all this aside: Really smart, setting fires. Because it’s not like they never get out of control and then, say, burn down your own homes. Who would they have blamed that on, hm?
There are many different kinds of religious communities here in Jerusalem. As far as I know, the religious Jewish communities who rioted in Jerusalem this week are non-Zionist groups. The more mainstream religious groups made statements condemning violent resonses to the gay pride parade. Jerusalem is very diverse.
Of course, we have to point out that the rabbis and real religious Jews have been telling everyone not to act like this. In contrast, the leaders of the Arabs have been publicly backing and encouraging the nutcases.
What is meant by bigotry? If MTV brought “Spring Break” to the Old City would it be bigotry to protest?
I would point out the following quote from
Arutz Sheva
Who are the real bigots (or are they just cowrds). In the article that I linked to above, we also find
I should also point out that the real protests were nonviolent prayer protests.
Meryl, there are nutcases in every sect in every religion. Moreover, it’s possible that some of these arsons may have been copycat crimes committed by those who simply wanted to make the ultra-Orthodox look bad.
The “World Pride” march has been held in Jerusalem for several years now. Let them move it to Tehran or Riyadh.
chsw
Thus religion. Isn’t freedom wonderful ?
BTW, Chief Fire Inspector Ruach projects the right attitude – put out the fires first, then investigate.
If ultra-Orthodox Jews did set these fires, then it appears that the only ones actually threatened by the fires were other ultra-Orthodox Jews and some Christians, according to the Y-net article Meryl cites. Hmmm….
chsw
I think the bigotry is in the behavior towards gays.
I understand that many religious people think homosexuality is a sin. I’m not one of them. And I’m not one to tell someone how to live their lives when their behavior isn’t harming others. Mind you, I’d be totally on board if we were talking about a “Murderer’s Pride Parade.” But we’re not.
Doesn’t matter if some of the arsons were copycat crimes. That still means that some Jews felt that it was okay to burn down Jerusalem in order to stop a gay pride parade. And that’s just wrong. If we go down that road, we’re no better than the Islamists who murder gays.
And we are better than them. Judaism is the true religion of tolerance. We don’t stone adulterers. Perhaps it’s time to convene a Sanhedrin and work out the problem with homosexuality, too.
Not that I foresee that ever happening. Just that I’d like to see it.
Meryl, how do you sqare your beliefs with the biblical passages that condemn homosexuality?
By pointing out that we are commanded to stone adulterers, and yet we do not. Nor are any religious Jews calling for us to start doing so. If our sages found a way around that, they could find a way around the commandment against homosexuality.
I know some people don’t agree with me. But it’s between me and God, ultimately, and not me and you (generic you).
Well, we don’t STONE adulterers, that’s true. But we don’t approve of what they do. As you said however, it’s between you and God.
If a Bryn Athynian was to slam all Swedenborgians because a few fellows, young and hardly cutting the mustard, wild ones, started setting fires along Second Street Pike, would that Bryn Athynian be engaging in a wee act of bigotry?
Wow, that’s good obscurity.
chsw Says:
The “World Pride†march has been held in Jerusalem for several years now. Let them move it to Tehran or Riyadh.
No, actually, it hasn’t. The international “World Pride” march was supposed to be held in Jerusalem in 2005 but was voluntarily postponed to 2006 because of the tension over the “disengagement.” At the scaled down parade that was held instead, a “religious” protestor stabbed three people with a knife. The 2006 World Pride parade was canceled and removed to a stadium on the Hebrew University campus at Givat Ram due to threats.
But, yes, a gay pride parade has been held in Jerusalem every year (except last year) for, what, five years now. As has a gay pride parade also been held in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Rome, Athens, London, Moscow, Chicago, New York … you get my drift. It’s not a matter of “moving” the parade. It’s a matter of accepting that people have the right to express their pride in who they are, wherever they are, even if other people don’t approve. It’s called freedom. It’s what Western civilization is all about.
LynnB: Slave owners in the South also showed a heck of a lot of pride in their “stock”. And slave auctions over history have been held in many urbane cities across the globe. Rome, Athens … etc, get the drift?
People, slave owners, have the right to express the pride in who they are, even if other people do not approve. Is that called freedom? I mean what part of my parallel to your statement is the freedom to which you call out? The freedom to “express who you are”, the freedom to “be what you are”, or the freedom to “be what you are even if other’s disagree”?
What is freedom? We know slavery is not freedom, so don’t go there. Is a slave owner free?
What of the freedom, the right to express, of a pure soul, the soul, enslaved and bound within the body of a pervert?
Is someone locked into a pattern of self-abuse free? A drug addict, or an alcoholic?
What are Mardi Gras, Flesching, May Poles, or any of the “fertility” carnivals about? Is that freedom?
Freedom for which part — the slave owner or the slave?
First, the starting of fires, physical violence (actual or threatened) and other inappropriate responses are disgusting. It’s worth noting that after violence broke out at demonstrations alst year, the Roshei Yeshiva instructed their students this year not to go to ANY demonstrations concerning the gay pride parade, not even peaceful demonstrations, and to pray instead. But there seem to be a few contradictions or misconceptions in your comments about bigotry and stoning.
>I understand that many religious people think homosexuality is a sin. I’m not one of them. Mind you, I’d be totally on board if we were talking about a “Murderer’s Pride Parade.†But we’re not.We don’t stone adulterers. Perhaps it’s time to convene a Sanhedrin and work out the problem with homosexuality, too.
[cont’d] >I understand that many religious people think homosexuality is a sin. I’m not one of them. Mind you, I’d be totally on board if we were talking about a “Murderer’s Pride Parade.†But we’re not.We don’t stone adulterers. Perhaps it’s time to convene a Sanhedrin and work out the problem with homosexuality, too.
{seem to have some trouble getting my post to register)
But according to the Torah, Meryl, it is a sin and we are talking about the equivalent of murder – they are of equal severity. And it is not bigotry to point out that the Torah prohibits something in the strongest possible terms. There is no more justification for reading approval of mishcav zacor into Judaism than there is of reading j.c. into Judaism, and the Gay Judaism movement has no more legitimate claims than do the Jews for Jesus — i.e. none.
–We don’t stone adulterers. Perhaps it’s time to convene a Sanhedrin and work out the problem with homosexuality, too.–
Work it out how? After all, we don’t stone people for homosexuality either, so it’s already on the same status as adultery. No Sanhedrin ever ruled that adultery is permitted, and no Sanhedrin would or could. A Sanhedrin that says there’s no prohibition of male homosexual acts is not a Sanhedrin, any more than a Sanhedrin who declared that we all need to become Christians would be a Sanhedrin.
If adulterers went parading around saying “I’m an adulterer, I identify myself as an adulterer, my life is nothing without adultery, and I demand your respect and approval for my adultery, and the readjustment of all your societal institutions to accommodate my sexual desires,” do you think that their demands would be any better received?
Yankev, I am not a Torah scholar. But I was under the impression that the Torah also commands us to put adulterers to death, and yet, that penalty has been mitigated due to Talmudic interpretation.
It seems to me that if you can change a direct command about adultery, you can find a way to interpret the proscription on homosexuality.
Not that I think it will happen. Just that I’d like to see it.
Meryl, you are confusing conduct and penalties. ALL death penalties are suspended right now due to the exile: not just for adultery, but also for idolatry and murder, among other things — or for that matter for mishchav zachor.*
The penalty is suspended, but the prohibition is not. Certainly no one would argue that the Rabbis found a way to make murder okay, and offer as proof the fact that we are not stoning murderers.
In that respect, mishchav zachor is on EXACTLY the same footing as murder or adultery — it is prohibited in the strongest possible terms, but the Rabbinic courts have no power to impose the penalty for it and, if they did impose it, would themselves be subject to the death penalty (once the courts are again empowered to impose it) for murder for having executed someone in circumstances not permitted by the Torah.
IOW, the death penalty for adultery has not been mitigated due to Talmudic interpretation — all death penalties are suspended while the Jewish people are in exile and there is no Sanhedrin. So the Rabbis have not re-interpreted the prohibition against adultery, have not “changed a direct command about adultery”, and cannot interpret the proscription against mishchav zachor. Any group of Rabbis who could “interpret” that command away could just as easily “interpret” a command to worship jc in.
As with adultery, mishcav zachor remains every bit as prohibited even though the death penalty cannot currently be imposed. As to what either one of us would “like to see” happen, that’s about as relevant as whether we’d like to see a hechscher on shellfish.
*(Lit. “Lying down with a man;” for various reasons, the term “homosexuality” can be very misleading here, because the English term is both over-inclusive and over-inclusive. As a Hebrew teacher, you are probably familiar with the confusion caused by trying to apply the English term “work” in place of the Heb. melacaha)